Mark Chenoweth is president and chief legal officer of the New Civil Liberties Alliance (NCLA), a nonprofit that brings lawsuits and files amicus briefs designed to reduce the power of the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Internal Revenue Service, the Federal Trade Commission, and other parts of the administrative state.

In 2019, the NCLA litigated against President Donald Trump's use of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) to levy tariffs, a case that helped set the stage for this year's Supreme Court decision striking down the president's "Liberation Day" tariffs. The NCLA played a key role in the 2024 Supreme Court cases that overturned "Chevron deference," a policy that required judges to defer to federal agencies' interpretations of vague or ambiguous statutes.

In this episode, Chenoweth talks with Reason's Nick Gillespie about his group's ongoing litigation in Powell v. SEC, a case challenging that agency's notorious gag-rule order, which silences people settling with the agency from publicly denying allegations against them, even if they never admitted guilt. He also makes the case that Chief Justice John Roberts—often criticized by libertarian legal critics for accommodating too much to government power—has taken the lead over the past several decades in reducing the power of the administrative state.

This interview was taped in front of a live audience at an event in New York City.

0:00—Civil liberties and the administrative state

5:33—Congressional failures in limiting administrative power

10:12—Social media platforms and censorship

13:07—Is the administrative state growing under Donald Trump?

20:57—The SEC gag rule

26:59—The NCLA's fight to repeal the gag rule

35:17—Elon Musk and Mark Cuban SEC cases

43:44—Powell v. SEC

50:11—Chief Justice John Roberts

• Producer: Paul Alexander
• Audio Mixer: Ian Keyser

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